This blog was first set up for a Tabernacle Baptist Church (TBC) Discipleship For Life (DFL) class, circa 2010. Starting in July 2022, I'll extend this to add material used in the Sunday School class
Sunday, August 29, 2010
Do we have a choice?
Do people have a choice about whether to be saved? What about other choices in life? Some believe in predestination, others in free will. What do you think.
I think that we have a lot less choices in our lives than we think. But when it comes to salvation, what kind of relationship would it be if the love expressed on either side was not by free will? Would your relationship with your children be better if you knew they had to love you or that they chose to love you?
Some (i.e., universalists) think that God's love is ultimately irresistable. From that perspective, everyone eventually chooses to accept it, and he keeps pursuing us until we do. Some may resist until after death, but once we can see the choices clearly there's no doubt what choice we'll make. I guess it comes down to what we mean by choice. I might choose whether to have coffee or tea, but I don't choose whether to breathe air or water. Those who say that we don't have any choice at all (about anything, even whether to have coffee or tea) must therefore deny that we can do anything to change course. (Anything we thought we were doing to make a change is something we were bound to do anyway.) So if "choosing" to accept God's love is something we're going to do anyway, is it really a choice? Imagine a married couple in which the wife knows exactly what to say or do to get the husband to do whatever she wants. Does the fact that she knows what to do to be effective mean that he doesn't have a choice? If she sets the right incentives he'll gladly make the choice she wants. Now shift that thought back to God's love. If he knows what to do to be effective and sets the right incentives, we would be glad to make the choice he wants. But it's still a choice, right?
When I think about the couple above, my first thought is a puppet on a string. While the wife may see the desired results, it would be a strain to say that love was involved. In the case of God's love, He really has some powerful incentives for us to accept his offer but for some reason he has also left some powerful ones to decline His offer. We all experience doubt, fear,and love for the world which, unlike the couples case, somewhat levels the choosing field. If we could see more clearly and have to depend less on faith, the choice would probably be removed. God must want us to freely choose Him because he has left it largly up to our faith, which he gives us but we then can choose to exercise. Jesus even seemed to appreciate that fact when He talked about how more blessed are the people who do not see yet believe.
So if God for whatever reason has left us some powerful incentives to decline his offer, shouldn't it be, somehow, OK to do so? I wonder if the alternative to eternal life is simply non-existence rather than eternal torture. Maybe that's the choice. After all, in Revelation, death and hell were cast into the lake of fire (implying that death and hell were no more.) That makes more sense to me than a continued eternal existence of perpetual torture and misery that cannot be revoked.
Because I have allowed my 17 year old daughter to drive to town by herself, I also opened the door for her, if she decides to, on the same trip to drive to Pannama City, Las Vegas or even, God forbid, Bowdon. She would love your reasoning in first sentence.
I think that we have a lot less choices in our lives than we think. But when it comes to salvation, what kind of relationship would it be if the love expressed on either side was not by free will? Would your relationship with your children be better if you knew they had to love you or that they chose to love you?
ReplyDeleteSome (i.e., universalists) think that God's love is ultimately irresistable. From that perspective, everyone eventually chooses to accept it, and he keeps pursuing us until we do. Some may resist until after death, but once we can see the choices clearly there's no doubt what choice we'll make. I guess it comes down to what we mean by choice. I might choose whether to have coffee or tea, but I don't choose whether to breathe air or water. Those who say that we don't have any choice at all (about anything, even whether to have coffee or tea) must therefore deny that we can do anything to change course. (Anything we thought we were doing to make a change is something we were bound to do anyway.) So if "choosing" to accept God's love is something we're going to do anyway, is it really a choice? Imagine a married couple in which the wife knows exactly what to say or do to get the husband to do whatever she wants. Does the fact that she knows what to do to be effective mean that he doesn't have a choice? If she sets the right incentives he'll gladly make the choice she wants. Now shift that thought back to God's love. If he knows what to do to be effective and sets the right incentives, we would be glad to make the choice he wants. But it's still a choice, right?
ReplyDeleteWhen I think about the couple above, my first thought is a puppet on a string. While the wife may see the desired results, it would be a strain to say that love was involved. In the case of God's love, He really has some powerful incentives for us to accept his offer but for some reason he has also left some powerful ones to decline His offer. We all experience doubt, fear,and love for the world which, unlike the couples case, somewhat levels the choosing field. If we could see more clearly and have to depend less on faith, the choice would probably be removed. God must want us to freely choose Him because he has left it largly up to our faith, which he gives us but we then can choose to exercise. Jesus even seemed to appreciate that fact when He talked about how more blessed are the people who do not see yet believe.
ReplyDeleteSo if God for whatever reason has left us some powerful incentives to decline his offer, shouldn't it be, somehow, OK to do so? I wonder if the alternative to eternal life is simply non-existence rather than eternal torture. Maybe that's the choice. After all, in Revelation, death and hell were cast into the lake of fire (implying that death and hell were no more.) That makes more sense to me than a continued eternal existence of perpetual torture and misery that cannot be revoked.
ReplyDeleteBecause I have allowed my 17 year old daughter to drive to town by herself, I also opened the door for her, if she decides to, on the same trip to drive to Pannama City, Las Vegas or even, God forbid, Bowdon. She would love your reasoning in first sentence.
ReplyDelete